Starting a Pelvic Health PT Practice: An Interview with Rachel Collins
I want to introduce our next special guest of honor, Miss Rachel Collins! Rachel and I met around the Summer time last year (2021). She came to me via a mutual friend/client, Bill who had recently started his cash-based practice. Rachel wasn't sure at first if she wanted to jump in with a business coach, but I'm so glad she did when she was ready! She now owns and runs her practice Rachel Collins Physical Therapy (RCPT), where she provides services for women who are pregnant or postpartum.
What we will be covering:
Can you tell us little bit more about like your background and what led you to be where you are?
Rachel: I was born and raised in Pennsylvania, graduated from Pitt in 2015 from PT school, and dove right into Orthopedics right away. I was in two different Orthopedic jobs because I was living in Kentucky. I worked there for a couple of years and that's where I did a residency. I got my OCS. I just want to learn all the things. Then my husband then got a job in Columbus so we packed up and moved to Ohio where then I got another Orthopedic job with a lot of post-ops. It was a good company, nothing was wrong. It was doing everything that normal clinics do. They try to get you to see patients in a "get them in, get them out" fashion. I've seen crazier, but we were still seeing a decent caseload of at least 55 - 60 patients a week. You're still having to double up people an hour, sometimes triple for those late night appointments. Then, it was Covid. Leave it to a pandemic to really open my eyes. That's when our numbers got significantly smaller and I realized that I almost forgot what it was like to treat one-on-one and and have time after the treatments to do a good note. I could do a good note but I think I could do better with my patients, and time would allow me to research. Once numbers started going back up I knew I didn't want to keep doing this. I didn't want to go back to those numbers or to double up my patients.
That led me then to look into what Bill was doing. I contacted him about how he went about the process. I also was reading more about it, going on podcasts, reading blogs, and getting the books to immerse myself in it. I wanted to see what it was like. Then I decided at one point, I talked to my husband. I told him I want to be a PT but I don't want to be this PT. I want to be a PT that I've always dreamed about. I want to help people and give them my full attention and energy. I was so stressed at work. I would come home and do an extra three hours of notes. I was drained, physically and mentally. I had no more room to want to learn more and that's what bothered me, That was not me, I wanted to grow. I want to continue to learn from other people, but at one point you just shut down. I'm like, "No wonder people get burnt out!"
I wasn't sure if this was for me, but that's when we (Morgan and I) first talked. Then I talked to you for a second time in October of last year and I officially said yes. I think I said at the time I talked to you "Maybe. It may not be the best time, but there is no best time." I could always have an excuse. I was pregnant, I had a lot of family illnesses going on and I just dove right in to it.
Morgan: That's something that I really admire about you and it's one of the Hallmarks of us working together. Of course we have to make room for a life balance and not push ourselves to the brink of exhaustion, but you have never let anything get in your way. The entire time that we've been working together since you started your business, All kinds of things have happened, but you've stayed on the path the entire time and you keep going. You don't stop or meander. That's so important and I think for you it probably feels like it comes naturally.
Rachel: That "Well, I said I'm going to do it so I'm going to do it." There is no fail. There's always failures in sense that I can do that better, but there is no to fail. There is just work harder, do better.
Morgan: And just keep going. Whether it's an inch at a time, a foot at a time, a mile at a time, you just need to keep forward and that's so important when going into business for yourself.
What do you think pushed you to go through with this?
Rachel: I think the big push was thinking of the big picture. I think for everybody the biggest thing is the money commitment, trying to put your best foot forward. I like how what Calli said about "investing in yourself". That's when I really had to sit back and think enough is enough. After we talked our first time, I didn't sign on with you, but we just talked. You gave me some suggestion of what to do next. I went and did them, but it's hard when you don't have somebody behind you 1) to help guide you on the correct steps and 2) give that deadline.
Honestly, I need that deadline of, "Rachel get this done by next week". If not, I drag my feet. Then, I finally just thought, "No. 'Someday' is yesterday!" I should have done this and that's what really pushed me when I finally decided. I talked to my husband and told him this is an investment. This is something that I'm investing in myself. I want to do this in order to do this. I need her help to guide me. I need to help and they help me understand the best way to go about doing this the correct way.
Morgan: Going back to investing in yourself, I like that you pointed that out. I know that these are different circumstances but I think like Calli and I talked about it too. We spent how many hundreds of thousands of dollars on school, and there's no guarantee. Even seeing over the past few years. Guaranteed employment is better now, but so many people were let go despite having made that investment. For me, that's why having a business is so important because even if you don't do it full-time or full "gung-ho", you always have another way to make money. No matter what else happened. I'm glad that you brought that up.
Tell us a little bit more about your practice now.
Rachel: I will say if anybody is wavering about maybe a niche or certain clientele to focus on, Morgan was very helpful with that. I figured I would do low back pain. That's the biggest range of things you could possibly target. At the time, when I started working with Morgan I was pregnant and we were talking about what I like to do. I said I like to stay fit and that exercise is very important to me. That's when Morgan said, "Rachel that's your niche!" I'm like, "Exercise?", and she said, "No, pregnancy! Exercising postpartum." All of a sudden the light switched as soon as we talked about that. It was so true. I'm a physical therapist and I'm a pretty good one but after my first baby I still gave myself sciatic pain, I tweaked my right glute, I did all these things wrong because I went in way too fast and didn't do the proper condition I needed to do. I can't imagine these other moms out there that don't have a background in healthcare and what they're dealing with. I was reaching out to my friends and other moms that I've been meeting and the same thing across the board. They're saying things like, "Yeah, I just deal with the back pain" or "I leak every time I sneeze". It's become this thing that as I learn more it's almost as if moms get second, and it's all about the babies. Babies are great, but what about the mom? From that point forward, that mom has that baby. You're a mother. That's how you're always seen, as a mother. Which is great, but what about you as a person? What would your goals be? I was talking to a mom who had back pain for 10 years after her second C-section. No one sees this connection??
Ever since we found out, I knew this is it for me. I got certified as a pregnancy and postpartum specialist, and I started doing more courses and getting out there. I'm hooked up now with a local mom's workout class here that I'm doing workshops for them for direct referrals to work on ab and proper posture. It's been great and I've even been reaching out to other therapists that do the same thing I do. At first I was nervous for that because it's like my competition, but there people out there, pregnant women, non-pregnant women, postpartum, if anything it's a strength to get to know all these other women that treat it and to be able to converse with each other. We have built up that community as well and it's really been good. That's where I'm at now.
I'm still doing my PRN job of home health about three or four days a week, and then on the side every day or two I'm seeing a couple of patients, starting to slowly build up. That's what I'm excited for right now, it's just the build up. Like I was telling you, I just went to a mom workout class and a mom was next to me. I was talking with her and she's looked at me she says, "I need you". Next thing you know, we have an appointment, I'm seeing her next week for an eval. It's just nice I think when you get to immerse yourself in your niche. It's like your CrossFit. You're going to CrossFit, they view you as another person not as this scary, "I can't talk to her" type of person. No, you're a real life person, and you're going through this kind of stuff too. You're a professional and well versed so it really helps make that connection. I can say, "Oh yeah, I remember what you've been through. I've had two kids" or "Yeah I had that happen to me. I did this, this, and this, and look at me now. Running." It really does help. I'm a walking, breathing example that works when you do it right. That really does help having them see me as just one of them. I'm a person just like you who has the same issues, and it really opened up doors and ease communication.
Morgan: Oh my gosh, Rachel, as you were talking about that I got the shivers. You're so right. I feel like everybody talks about your niche: "go where they are" (wherever your niche is). I was just talking to one of my friends here who's also a mobile therapist and the communication, the language, and seeing each other as peers rather than the authority, it's such a big difference. When you're talking together about all the things that you have in common, all the life experiences and symptoms, (why you're there exercising at the mom's class, why I'm at the gym) it gives you a whole other level of building rapport and trust. When they know the person in front of them, they know that you know you're pretty similar. I think that you put it really well.
One thing that I may encourage readers who feels like they're having trouble talking to their audience, more than even just getting involved in the community, you have to be on the same level. You need to use language that's not professional. My friend I was talking to, she was saying how she was networking and and talking to other people about her business which is great; way better than not talking about it at all. If you're out there struggling and you haven't told anybody about your business, do that's step one! Then, step two is going from a place where you say, "Hi, my name is... I'm a physical therapist and I help relieve joint and nerve pain, and help people get out of bed." Somebody would think that's cool and thank you for telling them, but instead of having that cold and distant, talking AT somebody, get on that person's level and going to the class because you enjoy it. You want to get to know new people even though it might not give you a patient tomorrow. Ultimately people are going to get to know you and trust you and they'll realize they can talk to you about things, and like you said, you're a person who also happens to be a professional. If somebody feels comfortable with you then they're going to be open to work.
Rachel: If they can connect with you on a similar level, I mean that's just that's half the battle right there. Don't don't get me wrong, because everybody who is a PT out there knows our job is lots of psychosocial. If somebody likes you and trusts you, you already have half the game. That's what you got to do.
You had mentioned about how to talk to patients. I wish people could have could have seen some of our conversations when we first started about talking with clients. I can talk my butt off, it's not not a hard thing at all to do. However, if you told me about talking to a patient, I could talk but I would just babble. Morgan would say, "Okay, let's take a paragraph down to two sentences. They don't care about all the things that you're saying." I think that helped me because at first I didn't understand why I'm not turning over so many patients
Just showing that you care, like listening. Listening to what's going on. This one mom I was talking to, she's telling about how she tried running and she ended up crying because she was so upset, and she's had 14 surgeries, and nothing's ever helping. I told her I can help her and it doesn't have to be like this. It's just simple. I feel like it takes stress off of me as well. I'm telling people I can help them as the professional but I am a friend too. I care about what's happening to you. If you spin it that way it's just showing them that you understand what they're going through and that you want to help. I tell them that I have helped people with the same issues they have and then ask when do they have time to talk. That has made such a difference slowing myself down and realizing that if it was me and somebody talked to me in paragraph form and started spilling out jargons of why they can help relieve my sciatic pain, I don't care about that. I just want to be able to run.
Morgan: I think that there are a lot of factors that can go into it, but I've seen it time and again with other therapy practice owners and myself. For some reason we feel like we have to like explain ourselves or defend ourselves. That's why I think a lot of us will ramble, but it really is a less is more thing. Even five words sentences. When we word vomit all over somebody and give them way more information than they need, it's similar to someone going online and trying to find the information that they need to fix a problem they have. However, there is so much information available, they don't know where to start or what's right for them. That's where the professional can step in and guide them, but if you pile more information on top and options, it's not helpful. You put the burden of fixing somebody's problem on the client and that's not why they're hiring you.
Rachel: I think why I did it too and why other people do it is you're in a new situation. As a PT I never had to ask for money. I never did. You show up, I do the eval, I set appointments, as far as insurance send them to the front desk. So in my mind when I think I'm about to ask somebody to make an investment in me, to give me money. I feel like I have to almost defend myself right away. It's almost like a little nervous tick of I'm about to ask for money so I need to word vomit everything that I can do for you. The more I step back and realize what I'm providing is such an exceptional service and an investment. It goes right back to why I'm hesitant in the first place to do business coach. It's an investment. The money that you are spending with me is an investment in your health, an investment in your future to continue doing what you want to do.
Morgan: And not to mention that's going to save you a ton of time whether you're investing in a business coach, in a program, in therapy, yourself, or other medical care. I just started seeing a functional medicine nurse practitioner and she charges $250 for an evaluation. That's not unheard of for us so I totally understood that. I was referred to her, she had what I needed and what I was really looking for. I could see in her this confidence that you're talking about. She knows that she can provide results and she can help guide me towards what I want to be doing. Of course, please take my money because I'm sick and tired of trying to figure it out on my own! Whatever the problem may be.
One thing that I was just thinking about too while you were talking, can you believe how far you've come in just the psychology of all this stuff?
Rachel: Oh, no! I've said I have always been a talker, but when it came to selling myself I was beginner stage. I was almost as if I didn't have the confidence in myself. I honestly think because I was really focusing on women's health stuff and in my mind I'm wondering if I had enough women's health experience to be doing this. I had to realize that I was doing it to myself already. I had been my own therapist throughout two pregnancies, learning, building, I've been treating women for how many years? As I was learning I saw that I was doing this stuff very similarly already and just spinning in terms to help moms.
When we first decided on how much for the evals and stuff I remember you asking if I was okay with that I'm like, "Yeah. I'm okay with that." Then, I went to Eddie and said, "I'm not okay with this! Who is going to pay me over $200 for an evaluation?!" Then, when I took a couple of days to step back I realized "if you won't even pay for yourself, who else would pay for you?" It's made me think about all that I'm offering. It's money. It's just a number, and if somebody really wants your services and is really invested, that's nothing to them. It really isn't. That's what made me step back and realize this is fine, I'm worth it, the patient deserves this. Again, this is an investment for them. My mom always told me, "you pay for what you get", and you really do. When you invest that kind of money in something, you're getting somebody who is giving you their time, their full attention, and you know it's going to get you better even faster.
Morgan: I don't think I've talked about this in a while on any of these interviews, but the point that you brought up about "would you pay whatever the price is". I just want to put it out there, you don't have to start with $200/250. If you think you wouldn't pay that then what would you pay? Maybe it's $150 or $100. Maybe it's $50, but if you really want to do this you have to start somewhere. Even though there are objective numbers that you need in order to meet your financial and time goals, which is a whole other topic, if you're really uncomfortable with it then don't charge it. That's totally okay. There are plenty of people I've worked with who started at $125 and then every six months or so they'll increase it, and that's fine. That's one of the bonuses of being in charge, you can always change your prices. I don't recommend changing them all the time. I've done that, it's messy. Don't do that!
Can you share more specific instances of sales conversations you've had? (Comparing last fall versus now). What kind of advice or tips have you learned in that time to help make them a little bit better?
Rachel: With the sales that I have learned it is being more precise. Like you said, have three questions in mind when you're doing a consult call. What's going on? What's causing your issues? What's it hindering your daily life? Just try to get to know them a little bit, let them lead the conversation versus me. Let them lead, I interject with "I can help you", giving simple two sentences of someone I've worked with or "this is what we can do", and then right into making a commitment.
My biggest eye-opener, going back over your normal PT evaluations, your subjective portion is just you sit there, nod, show empathy, you gesture back to them to let them know you are listening to them. That's what you're doing. You're just doing a subjective portion of an evaluation to get somebody to feel comfortable with you to then want to do an eval with you. The more I thought of it that way, it just became easier. I feel less stress going into it. I think it was what you said with Calli about when you talk with with patients, it's more of a conversation when you go in with less stress. I love that phrase, "even if we don't work together". I say that too and then offer to reach out to me if they need any advice. Just like that one girl I told you about, I was so excited because she reached out to me. I had talked to her over a month or two months ago and she emailed me and said she would love to have a phone call to talk and she seemed all for it. Then I get an email from her a week later saying she had found a cheaper option that fit her budget. I was bummed because we had s connection, but I wrote her back telling her that I was happy that she found somebody, I thought it's great that she was going to get this care during this time, and let her know that if she had any questions to let me know. I gave her a free video of exercises with some tips for during pregnancy and told her that I hope to see her in another workout class. That was that, and that helped it be less stress.
Morgan: Rachel that's so cool all the stuff that you're sharing and everything you and I have talked about over the past year. It's so cool to hear not that you took my advice and implemented it, but you're confident about it. It sounds to me like you've been in business for years.
Rachel: Oh gosh no! So I had a baby in March and we did my grand opening three weeks after my baby. I was getting bummed because I just made goals for myself. I wanted six consistent clients by this time and I stepped back and had to tell myself that I have a newborn and I need to keep plugging. I kept reaching out to those third person people, the gym owners. What really helped though was immersing myself, going to classes, talking to actual clients, and that opened the door. Now I'm going to talk to people that spin at Cyclebar next week. I'm going to a convention on Saturday The Babies and Bumps. I need to get out there and talk to people. Like I said the stress level is so much better. I think it helps too, people should know, I still work PRN. It's not that I quit my job completely. I know some people jump ship. Honestly, if my job was that bad I would, but my job is so flexible. It's been nice that way to help build it up. I don't get 12 or 15 in a week to make my minimum. I get one or two in and it's word of mouth, keep building. I'm that slow growth person.
Morgan: That's really okay because I feel there are probably people who are newer to business stuff, and especially with social media, you see so many people being so successful, but you have no idea how long it took them to get there. I use to internalize that, but it's just everybody's journey is so completely different. I think when you go into all of this stuff with basically no expectations, that also really helps to relieve stress. Because then you're not going into conversations and thinking, "they're not going to want to pay me" or "how are they going to react to the price?" The pricing stuff doesn't even matter at the very beginning. I really liked the fact that you emailed the lead back. It sounds cheesy, but it's almost like leading with love and kindness. It's so much less heavy on your heart when you find a positive and kind way for closure for yourself because you can't control what other people are going to do. If something doesn't go your way whether it's an event, a sales call, or a patient, give yourself two minutes to be bummed about it and then find a way to create closure yourself that's still kind to the other person and provides value. At least then I know as a clinician if somebody were to hire me and then decline the next day, if I send them exercises and I tell them, "Good luck! Try these out", then I can sleep at night. I don't have to worry about them and and if they want to come back they totally can. I usually say that phrase at the beginning of a consult call with anybody.
Tell me about you
What you want to do
If we're a good fit we can talk about how that works, but if we're not or you want to go down a different route that's totally okay. Whether we work together or not, right here and now I am here here to help you.
You can use that exact phrase no matter what you're selling!
Rachel: It's showing that compassion, showing that you care and that's what we do for therapy. Doctors are great, don't get me wrong, but they get 15 minutes with somebody and then they have to get out the door. This is what they're looking for. They want somebody to listen to them. They want somebody to hear them, and that's what you're there for, even for a consult call.
How often should you follow up with a lead and for how long?
Rachel: That's a good question. Leads that I get I would say I usually will follow up with them within 48 hours of first talking to them to touch base. If they're hesitant on the first call when I try to schedule, then I have their information at least and then two days later I'll check in and tell them I would love to talk more. I'm usually on them that way in the beginning and if I keep getting pushback then I make sure their information is in for my newsletters and offer my Facebook group. Then I can start to see if they are looking at things so I'll maybe wait two weeks or so for a "Hey, it's me again!" I try to balance this in the beginning. If I feel like it's going to happen I try to be that resource for them, but if they keep pushing back then I step back and let them look at my stuff I have coming out and then revisit a couple weeks later. That's the only one I do. I normally touch base at least once a week.
I've been trying to use the CRM, trying to put in some patients and then trying to put in other leads from workout class. The hardest ones are doctors' offices. I give them flyers and I'm like, "Why won't you call me back?" Those ones I usually go in person and leave the flyer with the secretary and I'll give them about a week and then I send an email checking in to seeing if the doctor had time to look at my flyer, see if they had any questions, and tell them I would love to talk either over the phone or in person. Same thing for gym owners. I go in face to face, give my flyer and give a little spiel, and then touch base about a week later. I could definitely be doing better at it, but I normally just try to do check-ins that way. It's heavier right in the beginning just so they don't forget me and that they need me, but if I keep feeling that that pushback I step back, give them resources, my group, and some tips. Then come back again.
Morgan: I really like the different ways that you are following up with people. Something that I feel like has also helped me a bit as far as neutralizing my emotional reaction to people canceling or rescheduling, which is a very human thing to do, but it's the trans-theoretical model. This is the way I like to visualize things so that I don't get annoyed with anything.
Such a big part of helping people solve their problem is gently moving them along the journey. You can never force somebody to go forward and make a change, but if you create opportunities and offer resources for that it allows them to get through this cycle. Even if they're a little bit wary about it. I really like this because I think it really applies to sales and marketing too. The people that are saying yes right now, they're taking action. They're being decisive, but that's such a small part of your audience. Statistically it's in a single digit percentage of people that out of all the leads that you have, all the people you talk to, that small group of people are the ones that schedule an evaluation right there and then. Once you realize that, that also takes some pressure off of you. You don't have to try to hard sell anybody on things because if they are ready to take action when you offer them help they're going to.
I like to overlap this with the sales process where this is what we want people to do, but we have to realize that there are going to be people still in pre-contemplation which is before they really acknowledge they have a problem, (whether it's knee pain, leaking when you're running, or whatever). They're not necessarily even aware of anything and that's where the generating awareness aspect of marketing comes in because you help to educate people and help them identify if they need the help or not. This is why a lot of our content that we put out there can be awareness driven and educational which is part of the reason why we went into healthcare, to help people with their health. Then we have people who think that maybe they do have a problem and they don't know what to do about it. Then, the next stage is determination which is also called preparation. These are people know they have a problem and need to figure out what resources are out there. That's where Rachel you were saying you've sent out resources to people who expressed interest but they weren't ready to take action, so coaxing them along by continuing to provide the value that they're seeking. Eventually you'll get them into the action stage. That action could either be working with you or essentially unsubscribing and leaving your realm.
Rachel: I like this because it's so true. It makes me think of me going back to making the decision to have you be my business coach. I think about that same thing as when I do think about patients that don't jump to work with me right away. I think, "There's not ready yet. There's something in their life that's not ready yet." That's what does help if we still get the information. Just because someone doesn't convert to you in that moment maybe on that in the action phase doesn't mean you need to forget about them forever, except if they if they do want to be done with you. They will find a way and they'll make it very obvious. That's fine. You're not the client that I need to work with and it saves you energy. The other ones that stick around though that look at your content and comment on things, they're still there. Sometimes when I know somebody needs my help I will tailor my social media posts and propaganda towards that person. If I know one person is complaining about leaking all the time so I'll post all the right tips and tricks on how to stop leaking exercises and offer for them to contact me. It feels like I'm talking right to them, (because I am!) I think that's helped too, especially the leads that are still around. I try to gravitate them in that way too.
Morgan: I really like that! Some content marketing strategy with Dr Rachel Collins! It's the same thing that I've told people to do before because I know for me sometimes whatever it is you get frustrated about and you're like, "I just wish that people knew why this is the way that it is." Channel that energy and frustration into doing a blog post, a video, or social media post. Because most likely there's somebody else who's thinking that way so you can start to get ahead of objections that you might see. It's a very good way to express yourself without being unprofessional.
We have talked about so much stuff and it's so cool to see where you were at this time last year, where I was at this time last year. Even though I've been Rachel's coach for the past year I've still learned so much stuff too.
Rachel: It's just the biggest thing for me. It's not only the strategies of how to do things and learning from your mistakes and how to do things better. It's been really helpful, but it has helped me grow as a person. I feel it in myself. I feel more confident. If you could have told me graduating PT school I wanted to be an entrepreneur and I wanted to own a business I'd be like, "No I don't. I just want to go to a clinic, make money and treat patients." I never wanted to be a clinic director because it's paperwork. I didn't want to do that. Now though, if you ask me what my 10-year plan is now. I would love to grow and have a brick and mortar. I'd love to have more than one PT. Honestly, I'd love to have a nutritionist, a massage therapist, a whole care team just for this population. I'd love to have classes and workshops multiple times a year for people who are on their third trimester to give them tips of what you can expect after baby, vaginal birth or C-section. I have all these ideas and I just want to grow. If you had asked me 10 years ago I would have said, "I want to be in a clinic. Get in and get out."
Morgan: Even though that is one way to go about being a therapist and there's nothing wrong with it. There's definitely a lot of things that end up growing and changing about you. For me and obviously for Rachel too, the stress, the frustration, the worries, the scary new things that you have to do, it's all been worth it because it opens up so doors in your life.
Rachel: I have stretched my comfort zones and it's only going to keep stretching. I know that, but to do my first Facebook live event was ...I thought I was going to die! You just have to do it though. What helps me is, I always think my expectations are low. Don't go in with all these big goals and then get upset with yourself. Don't be upset that you only got two viewers. So what? You got content, you are out there! You have the experience and you learn what you want to do better next time. My first couple of posts I thought I could have been better, so do better next time! So much about the little stuff and it didn't matter! That would be a big thing for me if I could tell people. Just do it! It'll be uncomfortable. I'm telling you, that's the only way you're going to grow. Be uncomfortable, learn from your mistakes, and blossom afterwards.
Morgan: And don't be afraid to ask for help either!
Rachel: I ask for help from you, from my friends. I've had so much help from just my friends just from helping me with social media stuff because I'm terrible at technology!
Morgan: That's also a bonus, at least working with me, we do use the computer. I have told a couple of other people too, once you have complete the DPT to CEO program, whether it's what I said literally to do or a different version of it, you also have become a salesperson AND a marketing person. All in this process. Those are jobs that are never going to disappear.
Rachel: Oh no! I'm so happy I'm learning them now, but I do hope in the future when I have a good investment back into my business, to pay somebody else to do those things!
Morgan: There you go! That'll be awesome! I can't wait to see where you're at in 10 years, it's going to be great!
How to contact Rachel:
Practice: Rachel Collins Physical Therapy (RCPT)
Website: www.drrachelcollins.com
Facebook: Rachel Collins
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